| by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota) |
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| This question is one that has different understandings by many in the various assemblies over the years. There are a number who believe Yayshua or Jesus did not exist until he was born of Mariam. I believe the Scriptures both old and new uphold and support that he was in existence before the existence of anything else. However, I do not believe he was eternal as the Father was until he was given life eternally after coming down from Heaven and sacrificing his life for ours. Here is my understanding about this often quietly talked about topic. In Revelation 3:14 John wrote the message that came from the Father who gave it to His Son (Rev. 1:1), “And unto the angel [messenger] of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning [G746, the ar-Kay or arche] of the creation of God [Yehovah].” It is my belief this “beginning’’ is talking about Yayshua the Son as the very beginning of the Father’s creation as I believe Proverbs chapter 8:22-31 describes in more detail. WISDOM WAS BROUGHT FORTH Proverbs 8 talks about wisdom and verse 12 says, “I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.” Going on to verse 22, “Yehovah [the LORD] possessed [H7069 erect, create, procure are some of the meanings], me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up [H5258 pour out, to cast as in metal] from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth” [H2342; born, to be in labor (childbirth), amongst other meanings]. For an example of being brought forth, we find in Isaiah 66:7-9: “Before she travailed [H2342], she brought forth [H3205 to act as midwife, to beget, show linage]; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth [H3205] in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth, saith Yehovah? Shall I cause to bring forth [H3205 to bear young, beget.], and shut the womb? saith thy God.” Continuing now in Prov.8:25, “when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was, I brought forth [H2342]: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.” Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 1:24, “But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah the power of Elohim [God] and the wisdom of Elohim.” Do the above readings in Proverbs 8 sound like it is only an inanimate wisdom, which a person would think the Father had from eternity? It reads like an individual being that was brought forth in some way or other. I believe it would more likely be the Son Yayshua describing his beginning. Here is another example of the word ‘formed’ [H3335] (which is also in Isaiah 43:10 discussed further below) in Deuteronomy 32:18 “Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.” Formed is H2342. Job 39:1 “Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [H2342]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?” Calve is also H2342. IN THE BEGINNING John 1:1 “In the beginning [what or which beginning?] was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” Paul says in Colossians 1:15 talking about Yayshua, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the Ekklesia [assembly, called-out-ones, commonly aka church]: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.” John 8:42, “Yayshua said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded [G1831 issued] forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.” Might this include Yayshua’s original beginning and also his physical beginning? Yayshua added a little more information in John 17:5 & 8, “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was [appears two beings involved prior to the start of the world]. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them and have known surely that I came out [G1831 to issue, literally or figuratively] from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.” He himself said he was the Son of his Father (John 10:34-35). BUT WHAT ABOUT ISAIAH 43:10? “Ye are my witnesses, saith Yehovah [the LORD], and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed [H3335], neither shall there be after me. The above verse certainly appears to be a difficult one in regard to the question, was our Messiah created? In trying to understand any hard scripture, we always want to compare that with other ones that are not hard to understand.” In searching for an answer to Isaiah 43:10 I came across what Adam Clark had to say in his Commentary. Adam Clark says regarding Isaiah 43:10. “Ye (the Israelites) are my witnesses – and my servant (the prophet) whom I have chosen, that whatever has been said before concerning Sennacherib has been literally fulfilled. The prophet had predicted it; the Israelites saw it accomplished.” “Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” This is a most difficult place. Was there a time when God was not? No! Yet he says, before me. Will there be a time in which God will not exist? No! Yet he says, after me. Are not all these words to be referred to his creation? Before me, no god created anything, nor was there anything pre-existent but myself. And after me, i.e., after my creation, such as now exists, there shall be no other class of beings formed. This mode of interpretation frees the passage from all embarrassment, and the context perfectly agrees with it. The words my servant, in this verse, the Targum understands of the Messiah.” So, we see even theologians like Adam Clark had to think hard with this verse. CONCLUSION It is my belief Yayshua was the Power and the Wisdom who was brought forth in Proverbs 8 and that he was the Son of the Father even before he came to earth. Proverbs 30:4, “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?” These and various other scriptures are why I believe as I do, that Yayshua the Son was somehow brought forth by the Eternal at some point prior to the creation of time and had his part to play in creation itself. For any reading this explanation of my belief, I don’t expect this to change any person’s mind; but at least it hopefully helps others to understand why there may be a different understanding as to whether Yayshua the Messiah was created or not. |
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