| Gossip (Part 1) (Copyright) by Rich Traver (Clifton, Colorado) |
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| Was listening to a taped sermon by a UCG minister this week. In it, he made the point that we ought not be sending around internet derived information (aka ‘alternate news’) in that it could be the equivalent of “Gossip”! I took it as a fair admonition at first consideration, being that I do much of that kind of thing myself. Second thoughts on that: While there may be a measure of misinformation in some alternate reports, we have the opposing consideration to factor into our information sharing. We KNOW much (most) of the ‘official’ main-stream news is blatantly false. It’s been demonstrated time and time again! Then, why would we let it all stand unchallenged? Why would we not alert the otherwise clueless? We’re going to let falsehoods stand, without reaction, to supposedly avoid the possibility that some of our sharing might be ‘gossip’? Nearly ALL of the information exchanges these days falls within that envelope, why then would we not “speak often one with another” about what we know? There’s a mindset that makes people withdraw from cognitive awareness, I feel, to their own detriment. Perhaps we ought to review what it means to be “Laodicean”, as that is the culture of the time, both within and without ‘the fold’. As responsible citizens, and as commissioned bearers of Truth, (doesn’t truth make us free?) why would we shirk our obligations to identify the false and put forth what is likely more true than the veiled ‘stories’ we see everywhere? What does “called-out ones” mean anymore? I want to apologize if anything I forward is a turn off. Understand, we ought to be circumspect as to what’s developing. We live in a changing world, and the changes aren’t going to be good, except for the out-beyond conclusion. Troubled times are upon us. We will be drawn-into it, nevertheless! ———————————————————————– Reprinted with permission from: Golden Sheaves https://www.goldensheaves.org/ ———————————————————————– |
| Gossip (Part 2) (Copyright) by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) |
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| When I saw this come in, I actually couldn’t help myself as I believe many people both in and outside of the Church of God are confused about what gossip is. Etymology The word is from Old English godsibb, from god and sibb, the term for the godparents of one’s child or the parents of one’s godchild, generally very close friends. In the 16th century, the word assumed the meaning of a person, mostly a woman, one who delights in idle talk, a newsmonger, a tattler.[5] In the early 19th century, the term was extended from the talker to the conversation of such persons. The verb to gossip, meaning “to be a gossip”, first appears in Shakespeare. The term originates from the bedroom at the time of childbirth. Giving birth used to be a social event exclusively attended by women. The pregnant woman’s female relatives and neighbours would congregate and idly converse. Over time, gossip came to mean talk of others. From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossip Gossip A. Godparent B. A Close Friend A person who chatters or repeats idle talk and rumors about others. A. Such talk or rumors B. Chatter To be a gossip; indulge in idle talk or rumors about others. Slander the utterance or spreading of a false statement or statements, harmful to another’s character or reputation: legally, slander is spoken, as distinguished from libel, which is written to make a slanderous statement about From: 1968 Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language College Edition Scriptures in regard to Gossip Pro 11:13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter. Pro 16:27 An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. Pro 16:28 A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends. Pro 17:9 He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends. Pro 20:19 He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips. Pro 25:9 Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another: Pro 25:10 Lest he that heareth it put thee to shame, and thine infamy turn not away. Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 2Co 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2Th 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 1Ti 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. 1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. My understanding of gossip would be a person who spreads rumors about another person whether these rumors are true or not true. In other words, if you know for sure that something is not true, and you have decided to spread it around anyway you are a gossip. If you don’t know one way or the other whether something is true and you spread it around anyway, you are a gossip. Suppose you know something is true, for example your sister drools when she is asleep or perhaps, she snores. These are things that are true but embarrassing and if you spread them around you are hurting your sister. This would not only be considered gossip, but it would also be idle talk. What is the purpose in spreading stuff like this around other than to hurt another person. Just don’t do it. In any marriage or close friendship there are bound to be transgressions against each other. As long as these transgressions do not hurt anyone else, and you have worked it out between the two of you, you should not be spreading these private matters around to other people. If you did, it would be gossip. When it comes to sin that is a totally different matter. So, you caught your friend stealing. Go to him/her and ask them to give what they stole back and apologize for what they did and suffer the consequences even if it includes jail time. This could include any miner crime or even a transgression such as infidelity. If you go to the person and discuss it with them first and they do not want to take responsibility for what they have done, you have two choices. If it is a crime that you are witness to, you need to turn that person into law enforcement. If it is not a crime but a moral issue such as infidelity, leave the relationship. Such relationships are counterproductive to family life. They destroy all family relationships. If the crime is murder, rape, or incest of children. Go to the police and report the crime if you were a witness to the crime. You never keep such crimes a secret. It is not gossip to report them or to discuss them with those who can help the perpetrator or the victim of the crime. Is the news gossip? I suppose it could be in some instances and most mainstream news is mostly untrue. The problem with news is that by the time you hear it whether true or untrue, it is already public. You didn’t write the story and if you honestly believe it isn’t true and that it could hurt someone else, then don’t spread it around. If you feel it is true or if you are unsure one way or the other and you want to tell someone else or pass it on because you feel others should know about it, then pass it on but always tell people what the source is that you are using. Use common sense when passing things along and understand that if you want to get too technical about what gossip is, the Bible could well be considered gossip since it talks about what people did and the sins, they committed punished or unpunished. I think the biggest thing that one needs to consider is that most gossip is idle talk or lies about other people which is spread around. The Bible is truth and should never be considered to be gossip although some might see it differently. Truth will always set us free, and we should always challenge those things that are wrong or untrue. We would be happy to hear other comments in regard to gossip and what a person believes it is and why. |
| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Gossip Article by Rich Traver & Laura Lee Comments by Ray Daly (Lincoln, North Dakota) |
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| In the article about women and gossip. Actually, it goes beyond just gossip, as far as what Scripture tells us about women in general. The answer, and it is quite evident today in politics, false religions, sports, etc/etal, is found in the inspired words of God Almighty, as he saw fit to tell it in Isa. 3:12. The above Scripture can be seen even in the families of those that The Almighty calls his people. For example, Sarah, when she nagged (?) Abraham into having a child for her through her maid. That is only one aspect of it. Note how she treated her maid and her son when she forced them away. A picnic basket, and a canteen of water. And then note especially how Isaac’s wife reacted when she went against her son Esau, in favor of Jacob. She lied and deceived Isaac and caused continued enmity between both of her sons. Also, as a result of her bad actions, she basically forced Jacob to have to flee, and live virtually in slavery for some 20+ years. Then there is Jacob himself. He wanted to marry Rachel, but her father wanted him to marry the elder Leah. You know the story, as he had “two wives”. And consider how those two wives treated Jacob and separated themselves from one another. Recall how Rachel said to Jacob. “Give me children or I perish”. (para) My, he had already sired 5 or six children, and Rachel was blaming him for her not getting pregnant. |
| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Gossip Article by Rich Traver & Laura Lee Comments by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota) |
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| Just to be clear, men can gossip just like women. Gossip is in no way gender specific. Most of what you are talking about here does not fall under the heading of Gossip. Where is that scripture saying that Sarah nagged Abraham into having sex with her handmaid. Most men do not have to be nagged into having sex with someone other than their wives. Sarah was allowed to send her handmaid away as Sarah owned her. What Rebecca did was a sin. Jacob was not a slave; he could have left at any point in time. And Rachel wanting children is not gossip. I think you are getting gossip mixed up with sin and every day living. Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. Isaiah 3:12 is happening all around us. Children are ruling parents in various ways the worst of which that parents can no longer discipline their own children because if they do the children will report them to social services or the police. Then the parents will go to jail or have their children taken away. Yet the law says the parents must have control over their children while at the same time taking control away from the parents. The children are well schooled in the most minor infractions that can have their parents thrown in jail. Having children is the responsibility of the couple who decides to have them, however many men do not take responsibility for their own children. They like to make the children but many times they disappear from the couple when they find she is pregnant. Those who do stay are most of the time lazy leaving all or most responsibility to the woman to work both at home and in the workplace to put food on the table while the men sit in the bar all night or run around with other women or both. When a man forces all or most responsibility on women then women have the rule over men. Then to top all of this off, you have immature government officials holding office and promoting all kinds of sin and telling everyone there is no God. In other words, the unconverted in this world have a major problem and are totally fulfilling Isaiah 3:12. If you have God’s Holy Spirit residing in you then Isaiah 3:12 does not apply to you because it will not or should not be happening among converted people. |
| Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: Gossip Article by Rich Traver & Laura Lee Comments by Rich Traver (Clifton, Colorado) |
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| Ray Daly writes: In the article about women and gossip. Actually, it goes beyond just gossip, as far as what Scripture tells us about women in general. Rich Traver writes: This reveals the writer’s intent here. I don’t recall if my article addressed gossip. In one I did comment that some take the position that relating what’s going on in the world and in government is gossip, which it is not. Ray Daly writes: The answer, and it is quite evident today in politics, false religions, sports, etc/etal, is found in the inspired words of God Almighty, as he saw fit to tell it in Isa. 3:12. The above Scripture can be seen even in the families of those that The Almighty calls his people. For example, Sarah, when she nagged (?) Abraham into having a child for her through her maid. That is only one aspect of it. Note how she treated her maid and her son when she forced them away. A picnic basket, and a canteen of water. Rich Traver writes: This shows both the accepted custom of that day as well as basic human competitiveness and insecurity. It wasn’t a gossip issue. Ray Daly writes: And then note especially how Isaac’s wife reacted when she went against her son Esau, in favor of Jacob. She lied and deceived Isaac and caused continued enmity between both of her sons. Also, as a result of her bad actions, she basically forced Jacob to have to flee, and live virtually in slavery for some 20+ years. Rich Traver writes: Again, a human proclivity, but it reflected God’s underlying intent that the birthright be awarded to the younger, and perhaps, the one with better character of the two sons. Ray Daly writes: Then there is Jacob himself. He wanted to marry Rachel, but her father wanted him to marry the elder Leah. Rich Traver writes: Custom again. Jacob got ‘swindled’, but then what state was he in to get in the sack with his new wife and not know who she really was? Ray Daly writes: You know the story, as he had “two wives”. And consider how those two wives treated Jacob and separated themselves from one another. Recall how Rachel said to Jacob. “Give me children or I perish”. (para) My, he had already sired 5 or six children, and Rachel was blaming him for her not getting pregnant. Rich Traver writes: Who did she say that to? Only Jacob, or indirectly to God also? Not sure what any of these examples have to do with the issue of gossip. Seems more to the matter of manipulation. I do have an article that addresses the issue of women speaking out in church. The real issue wasn’t what our male contingent in a wide spectrum of religions have posed it as having been. The article mentioned is “Let Your Women KEEP SILENCE” and can be found in this issue. Let’s factor Malachi 3:16 into this discussion. “Speaking often to one another”… to be of value, needs to be salted with relevant and useful information. |
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