A Little Here and A Little There

by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)
I have no idea how many times I have read my Bible from cover to cover, since I bought my first Bible when I was in third grade. Recently two different people have pointed out scriptures which I clearly don’t think I ever saw before. Yes, I read them many times, but I never saw them before. I am sure that not just me, but others have read right over these same scriptures and probably many others and for some reason they just never registered. Rachel and Deborah (This section written by Dwight Fleming.) When Jacob went to find his uncle. He came to a well where the sheep were watered. Rachel, Jacob’s cousin, appeared on the scene. This is very important to understand about Rachel which is not revealed in the KJV. Notice: “While he [Jacob] was still speaking with them [the other shepherds], Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherd” (Genesis 29:9 NIV). Jacob’s uncle Laban had two daughters and no sons. Rachel was doing a man’s job and deserved the same respect as any man worth his salt. She was a leader under her father’s authority and guidance. She did whatever she had to do to support the family business. No wonder Jacob fell in love with her. Here was a woman every bit his equal. The reason that I found the scripture on Rachel being of great importance for us today is because often a church may have mostly women there in attendance and few men. At times, there are only a handful of women and just the minister there for a church service. The minister may be compelled to do it all: opening prayer, lead song service, give announcements, fulfill prayer requests, give a sermon, and more song leading and finally end with a closing prayer if the guy has not fainted by then. In such circumstances, if no other men are present to help with the speaking duties, would God forbid any woman who desired to help with the speaking responsibilities? The example of Rachel should provide some light in this area of church protocol. When Laban had no sons, his daughters took on a son’s responsibility. Makes perfect sense even today. Another example found in the Bible is Deborah. Deborah is another good example of how women are very capable of serving in a leadership capacity. It was very sad to hear at church one time the minister state that the “spiritual condition of the men at that time was so low that God had to choose a woman.” This was a back-handed insult toward women which caused me to write a critique of that sermon afterwards which was not well accepted, nor any apology given for his attitude. Because Deborah was a female judge over Israel, Barak is considered weak and a “wimp” because he asked Deborah to go with him. Here is the hypocrisy in that thinking: If Deborah had been a male judge over Israel, then Barak would not have been considered weak. Why the double standard in their thinking by some ministers? “Would John Wayne or General Schwartzkopf have to wait for a woman to tell them what to do?” This was met with laughter which I did not find funny at all. Yes, indeed they would! What general or commander, even John Wayne, would go into battle without obtaining as much intelligence about the enemy as possible? Only a complete idiot. Just as with Rachel, a vital point is overlooked about Deborah. “Now, Deborah, a PROPHET, . . .” (Judges 4:4 NIV). So, Deborah was chosen to be a Judge over Israel at that time not because “all the men were so spiritually low that God had to choose a woman” (what nonsense!), but because she had the gift of prophecy which made her a PROPHET. This gift gave her insight which would be necessary for judging. When Barak asked Deborah to go with him, it wasn’t because he was a “wimp.” Rather, like any good general, Deborah was a kind of “Intelligence Officer” which would be able to give him good intelligence about the enemy. Would John Wayne or General Schwartzkopf listen to a woman? You bet! Anyone who could provide them with good intelligence would gain their ear. Forget the gender bias. (End Quote by Dwight Fleming.) Rachel and Deborah In the King James Version one of the meanings of “Kept” (H7462) is “Shepherd”. So, Rachel was a shepherdess. Gen 29:9 And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep: for she kept them. (KJV) Gen 29:9 He is yet speaking with them, and Rachel has come with the flock which her father has, for she [is] shepherdess; (LSV) Gen 29:9 He is yet speaking with them, and Rachel hath come with the flock which her father hath, for she is shepherdess; (YLT) Gen 29:9 While he was still speaking to them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherdess. (Darby) For Deborah the King James Version flat out says it like it is: Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. (KJV) God has no gender bias so why do men? To go along with this, Dianne D. McDonnell wrote a great article in regard to the Apostle Junia and how men tried to cover it up by changing her name to a male name that never existed at that time in history. The name of the article is called “Junia, a Woman Apostle” and was printed in Issue #7 of this newsletter. Titles Darwin was doing some research for a different article when he ran across these scriptures: Job 32:21-22 (KJV) Let me not, I pray you, accept any man’s person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man. For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away. Sounds like a serious matter to flatter people with titles and yet we have this going on all around us. Janitors don’t want to be called Janitors; they want to be called Maintenance Engineers. Sales Clerks are no longer Sales Clerks they are now Associates as if to make them look like they own part of the company when even if they have a few shares actually have no say. Some ministers insist on being called Mister rather than to use their first name to address them. This can also be talking about fairness and justice. For example, when you believe a man with a criminal record should be treated better than the police officers who are trying to get him under control while he is in the commission of a crime. I won’t mention any names, but we all know this is going on all over now. Instead of putting the criminal in jail they now want to get rid of the police. When you make a criminal into the good guy and let him get away with hurting people and property with no consequences you are being a respecter of persons. Both the criminal and the police officer should always be held to the same standards. There should not be one law for known criminals and another for those who hardly ever break the law. Sometimes it is perfectly okay to use a title, such as in the case of someone you don’t know at all and yet you want to get their attention. In that case you could address them as Mister or Miss which would show respect as opposed to disrespect. The following articles come to mind on this particular subject: “Is Calling Someone “Mister” Christian?” by Nathaniel Burson, printed in Issue #2 and “Respect or Respect of Persons?” by John W. Ritenbaugh, printed in Issue #41. Dinosaurs One of my favorite subjects’ dinosaurs. Darwin also found this scripture while he was doing research for another article. The scripture is: Job 40:15 (KJV) Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. So, did you catch it? What the scripture is saying is that God made the dinosaurs on the same day He made man. Job 40:15 Now behold, behemoth, That I made with you: He eats grass as an ox. (LSV) Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. (Webster) Job 40:15 Lo, I pray thee, Behemoth, that I made with thee: Grass as an ox he eateth. (YLT) Job 40:15 See now the behemoth, which I made with thee: he eateth grass as an ox. (Darby) Job 40:15 Behold behemoth whom I made with thee, he eateth grass like an ox. (DRB) In other words what is being said is that the dinosaurs were made on the same day as man. So, on the sixth day God created dinosaurs and Adam and Eve. I know, the story goes that the dinosaurs lived long before man lived, and God destroyed that part of His plan which helps man reconcile the Bible with Evolution. Why do we even need to reconcile the false narrative of Evolution with the Bible account. When will we understand that Scientists skew actual science in order to promote the false narrative of Evolution? When will we all believe what God said when He said: Exo_20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exo_31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. God Himself said He made heaven and earth and all that is in them in the first six days, and He rested on the seventh day. There is no gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 that allows for dinosaurs to have lived millions or billions of years before God created the Earth. The verses say He made Heaven and Earth in six days. Why are you believing Scientists over God? And do you honestly believe that Evolution needs to be reconciled with the Bible? Evolution teaches the earth is millions or billions of years old and God says “NO” it was all created in Six days and then He rested on the Seventh Day. If you believe God can resurrect you then why don’t you believe Him when he tells you about the creation and how long it took Him to make it? The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. No one seems to know exactly when it was written. Most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood but were things in place shortly after the flood for Job to have the wealth that he had? I don’t know but I would say it is more likely that Job lived before the flood sometime and dinosaurs were an everyday part of his life. If God would talk to us about behemoths and leviathans we would be confused because we haven’t seen them. Job never argued the point when God brought it up. Job knew exactly what God was talking about. Many people believe these were elephants or hippopotamuses. Some even say they are elephants with big bellies. The problem is that the Bible describes the behemoth, and it doesn’t have a small tail like those mentioned here. Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. Job 40:18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. Job 40:19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Job 40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares. The behemoth is most likely a sauropod dinosaur such as diplodocus or brachiosaurus—dinosaurs with long necks and gigantic tails. And God says they were made on the sixth day with man. Why do people continue to call God a liar? Evolution is the one that takes millions and billions of years, but God said he did it all in six days and then rested. Take God at His word for He does not lie. Many ancient caves have images of dinosaurs on them. Notice the tail like a cedar. Noah’s Ark While this article was but a thought in my mind, along comes James Steinle with one of the best videos in regard to Noah’s Ark and a young earth. The video is one hour and twenty minutes long and is excellent. The link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoQL7W5jg8 The evidence is everywhere for dinosaurs to live at the same time as man and for God to have created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in only six days. Believe God, not man’s made-up fairy tales. David Rives comes to mind, so I will end with a quote from him: “Truly…the heavens declare the glory of God.”

by Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

I have no idea how many times I have read my Bible from cover to cover, since I bought my first Bible when I was in third grade. Recently two different people have pointed out scriptures which I clearly don’t think I ever saw before. Yes, I read them many times, but I never saw them before. I am sure that not just me, but others have read right over these same scriptures and probably many others and for some reason they just never registered.

Rachel and Deborah (This section written by Dwight Fleming.)
When Jacob went to find his uncle. He came to a well where the sheep were watered. Rachel, Jacob’s cousin, appeared on the scene. This is very important to understand about Rachel which is not revealed in the KJV. Notice: “While he [Jacob] was still speaking with them [the other shepherds], Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherd” (Genesis 29:9 NIV). Jacob’s uncle Laban had two daughters and no sons. Rachel was doing a man’s job and deserved the same respect as any man worth his salt. She was a leader under her father’s authority and guidance. She did whatever she had to do to support the family business. No wonder Jacob fell in love with her. Here was a woman every bit his equal.

The reason that I found the scripture on Rachel being of great importance for us today is because often a church may have mostly women there in attendance and few men. At times, there are only a handful of women and just the minister there for a church service. The minister may be compelled to do it all: opening prayer, lead song service, give announcements, fulfill prayer requests, give a sermon, and more song leading and finally end with a closing prayer if the guy has not fainted by then.

In such circumstances, if no other men are present to help with the speaking duties, would God forbid any woman who desired to help with the speaking responsibilities? The example of Rachel should provide some light in this area of church protocol. When Laban had no sons, his daughters took on a son’s responsibility. Makes perfect sense even today.

Another example found in the Bible is Deborah. Deborah is another good example of how women are very capable of serving in a leadership capacity. It was very sad to hear at church one time the minister state that the “spiritual condition of the men at that time was so low that God had to choose a woman.” This was a back-handed insult toward women which caused me to write a critique of that sermon afterwards which was not well accepted, nor any apology given for his attitude. Because Deborah was a female judge over Israel, Barak is considered weak and a “wimp” because he asked Deborah to go with him.

Here is the hypocrisy in that thinking: If Deborah had been a male judge over Israel, then Barak would not have been considered weak. Why the double standard in their thinking by some ministers? “Would John Wayne or General Schwartzkopf have to wait for a woman to tell them what to do?” This was met with laughter which I did not find funny at all. Yes, indeed they would! What general or commander, even John Wayne, would go into battle without obtaining as much intelligence about the enemy as possible? Only a complete idiot.

Just as with Rachel, a vital point is overlooked about Deborah. “Now, Deborah, a PROPHET, . . .” (Judges 4:4 NIV). So, Deborah was chosen to be a Judge over Israel at that time not because “all the men were so spiritually low that God had to choose a woman” (what nonsense!), but because she had the gift of prophecy which made her a PROPHET. This gift gave her insight which would be necessary for judging. When Barak asked Deborah to go with him, it wasn’t because he was a “wimp.” Rather, like any good general, Deborah was a kind of “Intelligence Officer” which would be able to give him good intelligence about the enemy. Would John Wayne or General Schwartzkopf listen to a woman? You bet! Anyone who could provide them with good intelligence would gain their ear. Forget the gender bias. (End Quote by Dwight Fleming.)

Rachel and Deborah
In the King James Version one of the meanings of “Kept” (H7462) is “Shepherd”. So, Rachel was a shepherdess.

Gen 29:9 And while he yet spake with them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep: for she kept them. (KJV)

Gen 29:9 He is yet speaking with them, and Rachel has come with the flock which her father has, for she [is] shepherdess; (LSV)

Gen 29:9 He is yet speaking with them, and Rachel hath come with the flock which her father hath, for she is shepherdess; (YLT)

Gen 29:9 While he was still speaking to them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherdess. (Darby)

For Deborah the King James Version flat out says it like it is:

Jdg 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. (KJV)

God has no gender bias so why do men? To go along with this, Dianne D. McDonnell wrote a great article in regard to the Apostle Junia and how men tried to cover it up by changing her name to a male name that never existed at that time in history. The name of the article is called “Junia, a Woman Apostle” and was printed in Issue #7 of this newsletter.

Titles
Darwin was doing some research for a different article when he ran across these scriptures:

Job 32:21-22 (KJV) Let me not, I pray you, accept any man’s person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man. For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

Sounds like a serious matter to flatter people with titles and yet we have this going on all around us. Janitors don’t want to be called Janitors; they want to be called Maintenance Engineers. Sales Clerks are no longer Sales Clerks they are now Associates as if to make them look like they own part of the company when even if they have a few shares actually have no say. Some ministers insist on being called Mister rather than to use their first name to address them.

This can also be talking about fairness and justice. For example, when you believe a man with a criminal record should be treated better than the police officers who are trying to get him under control while he is in the commission of a crime. I won’t mention any names, but we all know this is going on all over now. Instead of putting the criminal in jail they now want to get rid of the police. When you make a criminal into the good guy and let him get away with hurting people and property with no consequences you are being a respecter of persons. Both the criminal and the police officer should always be held to the same standards. There should not be one law for known criminals and another for those who hardly ever break the law.

Sometimes it is perfectly okay to use a title, such as in the case of someone you don’t know at all and yet you want to get their attention. In that case you could address them as Mister or Miss which would show respect as opposed to disrespect.

The following articles come to mind on this particular subject: “Is Calling Someone “Mister” Christian?” by Nathaniel Burson, printed in Issue #2 and “Respect or Respect of Persons?” by John W. Ritenbaugh, printed in Issue #41.

Dinosaurs
One of my favorite subjects’ dinosaurs. Darwin also found this scripture while he was doing research for another article. The scripture is:

Job 40:15 (KJV) Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

So, did you catch it? What the scripture is saying is that God made the dinosaurs on the same day He made man.

Job 40:15 Now behold, behemoth, That I made with you: He eats grass as an ox. (LSV)

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. (Webster)

Job 40:15 Lo, I pray thee, Behemoth, that I made with thee: Grass as an ox he eateth. (YLT)

Job 40:15 See now the behemoth, which I made with thee: he eateth grass as an ox. (Darby)

Job 40:15 Behold behemoth whom I made with thee, he eateth grass like an ox. (DRB)

In other words what is being said is that the dinosaurs were made on the same day as man. So, on the sixth day God created dinosaurs and Adam and Eve.

I know, the story goes that the dinosaurs lived long before man lived, and God destroyed that part of His plan which helps man reconcile the Bible with Evolution. Why do we even need to reconcile the false narrative of Evolution with the Bible account. When will we understand that Scientists skew actual science in order to promote the false narrative of Evolution?

When will we all believe what God said when He said:

Exo_20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo_31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

God Himself said He made heaven and earth and all that is in them in the first six days, and He rested on the seventh day. There is no gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 that allows for dinosaurs to have lived millions or billions of years before God created the Earth. The verses say He made Heaven and Earth in six days. Why are you believing Scientists over God? And do you honestly believe that Evolution needs to be reconciled with the Bible? Evolution teaches the earth is millions or billions of years old and God says “NO” it was all created in Six days and then He rested on the Seventh Day. If you believe God can resurrect you then why don’t you believe Him when he tells you about the creation and how long it took Him to make it?

The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. No one seems to know exactly when it was written. Most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood but were things in place shortly after the flood for Job to have the wealth that he had? I don’t know but I would say it is more likely that Job lived before the flood sometime and dinosaurs were an everyday part of his life.

If God would talk to us about behemoths and leviathans we would be confused because we haven’t seen them. Job never argued the point when God brought it up. Job knew exactly what God was talking about.

Many people believe these were elephants or hippopotamuses. Some even say they are elephants with big bellies. The problem is that the Bible describes the behemoth, and it doesn’t have a small tail like those mentioned here.

Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
Job 40:18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
Job 40:19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
Job 40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

The behemoth is most likely a sauropod dinosaur such as diplodocus or brachiosaurus—dinosaurs with long necks and gigantic tails. And God says they were made on the sixth day with man. Why do people continue to call God a liar? Evolution is the one that takes millions and billions of years, but God said he did it all in six days and then rested. Take God at His word for He does not lie.

Many ancient caves have images of dinosaurs on them. Notice the tail like a cedar.

Noah’s Ark
While this article was but a thought in my mind, along comes James Steinle with one of the best videos in regard to Noah’s Ark and a young earth. The video is one hour and twenty minutes long and is excellent. The link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoQL7W5jg8

The evidence is everywhere for dinosaurs to live at the same time as man and for God to have created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in only six days. Believe God, not man’s made-up fairy tales.

David Rives comes to mind, so I will end with a quote from him: “Truly…the heavens declare the glory of God.”

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)
A very interesting article overall giving us things to think about. Yes, how easy it is to read over something and actually not see it! Laura mentioned towards the end of her article that most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood or possibly even before it. In Job 2:11 it talks about 3 friends of Job, one with the name of Eliphaz the Temanite. Genesis 36:10 mentions Esau’s sons, one being an Eliphaz who had a son named Teman in verse 11. The information goes on through verse 16. I believe it is very likely Eliphaz, a friend of Job, was a first cousin to Jacob, approximately 2000 years before the birth of the Messiah. Editor’s Note: Actually, what I said in the article was: “The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. No one seems to know exactly when it was written. Most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood but were things in place shortly after the flood for Job to have the wealth that he had? I don’t know but I would say it is more likely that Job lived before the flood sometime and dinosaurs were an everyday part of his life.” Scholars are all over the place about Job. I believe the most prevalent point among scholars is that the book of Job was written about 2000 years before Christ. It would then follow that they believe Job lived after the flood, but I don’t think any of them are for sure about when Job lived. Eliphaz the Temanite maybe Esau’s Son Job 2:11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came everyone from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him. Gen 36:10 These are the names of Esau’s sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau, Reuel the son of Bashemath the wife of Esau. Gen 36:11 And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz. Gen 36:12 And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz Esau’s son; and she bare to Eliphaz Amalek: these were the sons of Adah Esau’s wife. Gen 36:13 And these are the sons of Reuel; Nahath, and Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah: these were the sons of Bashemath Esau’s wife. Gen 36:14 And these were the sons of Aholibamah, the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon, Esau’s wife: and she bare to Esau Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah. Gen 36:15 These were dukes of the sons of Esau: the sons of Eliphaz the firstborn son of Esau; duke Teman, duke Omar, duke Zepho, duke Kenaz, Gen 36:16 Duke Korah, duke Gatam, and duke Amalek: these are the dukes that came of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah. Bildad the Shuhite maybe a Son of Abraham and Keturah Bildad (Hebrew: בִּלְדַּד Bildaḏ), the Shuhite, was one of Job’s three friends who visited the patriarch in the Hebrew Bible’s Book of Job. He was a descendant of Shuah, son of Abraham and Keturah (Genesis 25:1 – 25:2), whose family lived in the deserts of Arabia, or a resident of the district. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildad#:~:text=Bildad%20(Hebrew%3A%20%D7%91%D6%B4%D6%BC%D7%9C%D6%B0%D7%93%D6%B7%D6%BC%D7%93%20Bilda%E1%B8%8F),a%20resident%20of%20the%20district. Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. Gen 25:2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. Zophar the Naamathite Unknown Bible Dictionaries – Smith’s Bible Dictionary – Naamathite Naamathite, [E] the Gentile name of one of Jobs friends, Zophar the Naamathite. ( Job 2:11 ; 11:1 ; 20:1 ; 42:9 ) There is no other trace of this name in the Bible, and the town whence it is derived is unknown. (But as Uz was in Arabia, probably the Naamah where he lived was on the Arabian borders of Syria.) [E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton’s Bible Dictionary Bibliography Information Smith, William, Dr. “Entry for ‘Naamathite,'”. “Smith’s Bible Dictionary”. . 1901. Encyclopedias – International Standard Bible Encyclopedia – Naamathite NAAMATHITE na’-a-ma-thit, na-am’-a-thit (na`amdthi, “a dweller in Naaman”; ho M(e)inaion basileus): The description of Zophar, one of Job’s friends (Job 2:11; 11:1; 20:1, etc.). Naamah is too common a placename to permit of the identification of Zophar’s home; the Septuagint renders it as “king of the Minaeans.” https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/naamathite/ Job The Alexandrian Septuagint contains an addition to Job 42:16 stating that Job died at the age of 240. https://www.gotquestions.org/when-did-Job-live.html Conclusion Above is further proof for those mentioned in the Book of Job, however I believe we need more proof so we may have to shelve this one until more proof comes along. When I said that I believed Job lived before the flood, it was and still is my opinion. There is compelling proof for at least two of the friends of Job to perhaps be relatives of Esau and Abraham however I will caution everyone about names. There are six women including me named Laura Lee that I know of in Bismarck alone, none of which are closely related to me. Many people today and in Bible times had the same name. So, in this case I think you need more proof in order to say these people are for sure related. One point of proof that sort of tips the scales in either direction, before or after the flood and that is the age of Job when he died. If he was 240 years old when he died, it could very well be that he lived shortly after the flood. At that point in time when due to the new environment people did not live as long as they did before the flood. As far as the dinosaurs go, if Noah brought some on the ark, they may have died out shortly after the flood or they may have gotten smaller over time due to the new environment. Whether Job lived before or after the flood he had a knowledge of dinosaurs or God wouldn’t have spoken to Job in regard to them and Job showed no surprise when God brought them up. If someone has proof for when Job lived, I would like to see it.

Iron Sharpening Iron
In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There
Article by Laura Lee
Comments by James Steinle (Swanville, Minnesota)

A very interesting article overall giving us things to think about. Yes, how easy it is to read over something and actually not see it! Laura mentioned towards the end of her article that most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood or possibly even before it. In Job 2:11 it talks about 3 friends of Job, one with the name of Eliphaz the Temanite. Genesis 36:10 mentions Esau’s sons, one being an Eliphaz who had a son named Teman in verse 11. The information goes on through verse 16. I believe it is very likely Eliphaz, a friend of Job, was a first cousin to Jacob, approximately 2000 years before the birth of the Messiah.

Editor’s Note: Actually, what I said in the article was:

“The book of Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. No one seems to know exactly when it was written. Most scholars believe Job lived shortly after the flood but were things in place shortly after the flood for Job to have the wealth that he had? I don’t know but I would say it is more likely that Job lived before the flood sometime and dinosaurs were an everyday part of his life.”

Scholars are all over the place about Job. I believe the most prevalent point among scholars is that the book of Job was written about 2000 years before Christ. It would then follow that they believe Job lived after the flood, but I don’t think any of them are for sure about when Job lived.

Eliphaz the Temanite maybe Esau’s Son
Job 2:11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came everyone from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.

Gen 36:10 These are the names of Esau’s sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau, Reuel the son of Bashemath the wife of Esau. Gen 36:11 And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz. Gen 36:12 And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz Esau’s son; and she bare to Eliphaz Amalek: these were the sons of Adah Esau’s wife. Gen 36:13 And these are the sons of Reuel; Nahath, and Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah: these were the sons of Bashemath Esau’s wife. Gen 36:14 And these were the sons of Aholibamah, the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon, Esau’s wife: and she bare to Esau Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah. Gen 36:15 These were dukes of the sons of Esau: the sons of Eliphaz the firstborn son of Esau; duke Teman, duke Omar, duke Zepho, duke Kenaz, Gen 36:16 Duke Korah, duke Gatam, and duke Amalek: these are the dukes that came of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah.

Bildad the Shuhite maybe a Son of Abraham and Keturah
Bildad (Hebrew: בִּלְדַּד Bildaḏ), the Shuhite, was one of Job’s three friends who visited the patriarch in the Hebrew Bible’s Book of Job. He was a descendant of Shuah, son of Abraham and Keturah (Genesis 25:1 – 25:2), whose family lived in the deserts of Arabia, or a resident of the district.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildad#:~:text=Bildad%20(Hebrew%3A%20%D7%91%D6%B4%D6%BC%D7%9C%D6%B0%D7%93%D6%B7%D6%BC%D7%93%20Bilda%E1%B8%8F),a%20resident%20of%20the%20district.

Gen 25:1 Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. Gen 25:2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

Zophar the Naamathite Unknown
Bible Dictionaries – Smith’s Bible Dictionary – Naamathite
Naamathite, [E] the Gentile name of one of Jobs friends, Zophar the Naamathite. ( Job 2:11 ; 11:1 ; 20:1 ; 42:9 ) There is no other trace of this name in the Bible, and the town whence it is derived is unknown. (But as Uz was in Arabia, probably the Naamah where he lived was on the Arabian borders of Syria.) [E] indicates this entry was also found in Easton’s Bible Dictionary

Bibliography Information
Smith, William, Dr. “Entry for ‘Naamathite,'”. “Smith’s Bible Dictionary”. . 1901. Encyclopedias – International Standard Bible Encyclopedia – Naamathite

NAAMATHITE na’-a-ma-thit, na-am’-a-thit (na`amdthi, “a dweller in Naaman”; ho M(e)inaion basileus): The description of Zophar, one of Job’s friends (Job 2:11; 11:1; 20:1, etc.). Naamah is too common a placename to permit of the identification of Zophar’s home; the Septuagint renders it as “king of the Minaeans.”

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/naamathite/

Job
The Alexandrian Septuagint contains an addition to Job 42:16 stating that Job died at the age of 240.

https://www.gotquestions.org/when-did-Job-live.html

Conclusion
Above is further proof for those mentioned in the Book of Job, however I believe we need more proof so we may have to shelve this one until more proof comes along.

When I said that I believed Job lived before the flood, it was and still is my opinion. There is compelling proof for at least two of the friends of Job to perhaps be relatives of Esau and Abraham however I will caution everyone about names. There are six women including me named Laura Lee that I know of in Bismarck alone, none of which are closely related to me. Many people today and in Bible times had the same name. So, in this case I think you need more proof in order to say these people are for sure related.

One point of proof that sort of tips the scales in either direction, before or after the flood and that is the age of Job when he died. If he was 240 years old when he died, it could very well be that he lived shortly after the flood. At that point in time when due to the new environment people did not live as long as they did before the flood.

As far as the dinosaurs go, if Noah brought some on the ark, they may have died out shortly after the flood or they may have gotten smaller over time due to the new environment.

Whether Job lived before or after the flood he had a knowledge of dinosaurs or God wouldn’t have spoken to Job in regard to them and Job showed no surprise when God brought them up. If someone has proof for when Job lived, I would like to see it.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by Mike Hillyard (San Andreas, California)
Mike writes: What or who is the crooked serpent of Job 26:13, Whom God’s hands have formed? Laura writes: Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. Albert Barnes Commentary: He hath garnished the heavens – He has formed the stars which constitute so beautiful an ornament of the heavens. His hand hath formed the crooked serpent – Or, rather, the fleeing serpent – ברח נחש nachash barach; see the notes at Isa 27:1. There can be no doubt that Job refers here to one of the constellations, which it seems was then known as the serpent or dragon. The practice of forming pictures of the heavens, with a somewhat fanciful resemblance to animals, was one of the most early devices of astronomy, and was evidently known in the time of Job; compare the notes at Job 9:9. The object was, probably, to aid the memory; and though the arrangement is entirely arbitrary, and the resemblance wholly fanciful, yet it is still continued in the works of astronomy, as a convenient help to the memory, and as aiding in the description of the heavenly bodies. This is probably the same constellation, which is described by Virgil, in language that strikingly resembles that here used by Job: What is being spoken of in Job 26:13 is a constellation. Mike writes: (Here a little there a little, Isa 28:9-13) Laura writes: Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Mike writes: So, who created Satan? Laura writes: Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:15 *Thou wast* perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. God created a perfect cherub in Lucifer. Lucifer chose to sin. Mike writes: Revelation 12:9 “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called Satan and the Devil, who deceives the whole world”…. Laura writes: Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Mike writes: Ecclesiastes 1:13 “It is an experience of evil God has given the sons of man, to humble them by it”. Do you know of any creature more evil than Satan, whom God’s hand has formed? Laura writes:** Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. Satan is as evil as they come. Mike writes: The next question would be, why did God create the crooked serpent known as Satan and the Devil? God creates the light and the darkness, He makes peace and creates evil, “I the Lord do all these things”…. Isa 45:7-9. Laura writes: Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isa 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Mike writes: Why? ….” turn such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord” 1 Cor 5:5… There is none that is good, no not one. Romans 3:10, Psalm 14:1-3. Here a little there a little……… Laura writes: 1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. To sum it all up: Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. *And all that God does is so we might be saved.* This however is not the end of the story. Everything that God created was good. One thing God did was to create all creatures in heaven and all humans on earth with “Free Will”. Some creatures in heaven and some humans on earth have rejected God. The opposite of good is evil. In a round about way God created evil by creating everyone with “Free Will”. Everyone has the capacity to choose to do good or choose to do evil. God generally does not interfere with anyone’s “Free Will”. The reason there is pain and suffering on earth at this time is because people have “Free Will” and when a person chooses to do evil God just doesn’t interfere with that “Free Will” no matter how evil it is. The only reason God will interfere with a persons “Free Will” is if He has called a certain person to do a specific work, then He will protect that person from the “Evil Free Will” of others, just like in some instances He protects you from “Time and Chance” and even from “Accidents”. I can recount in my own life many times where God has interfered just to save me from “Evil Acts by Other People with Free Will”, and from “Time and Chance” and “Accidents”. For example, I was working in Lake Mills, Wisconsin and I was done for the day. You know how it is, I was tired and just wanted to go home. I had to stop at the grocery store first and all went well. I was in line waiting to check out and the line was moving along, and the cash register worked just fine. Then it was my turn to check out. The cash register stopped working. Three people in succession looked at and tried to get the cash register working and not one of them could figure out why it just quit working. A few minutes later and just as quick as it had stopped it started working just as good as before it quit. They checked me out and I started to drive home. When I stopped at the intersection of County A and Highway 18, I knew immediately why the cash register jammed. There were three cars smashed and in various places on the highway and in the farmers field and the police and ambulance were not yet there. Meaning it just happened and I just missed it. More recently I was in our attic and tripped over a large piece of plastic Darwin had put up there so my office chair up there would glide more easily. The plastic is a quarter inch thick and very hard. When I tripped, I landed on the plastic, but it felt like I landed on a pillow, and I wasn’t hurt at all. *If others have stories like these send it over and I will attach it to this.* So, no God did not create “Evil” for the sake of creating “Evil” it came about through those He created with “Free Will”. Those who chose to do “Evil” rather than to do “Good”. God allows the “Evil” as well as the “Good” that we may be saved.

Iron Sharpening Iron
In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There
Article by Laura Lee
Comments by Mike Hillyard (San Andreas, California)

Mike writes:
What or who is the crooked serpent of Job 26:13, Whom God’s hands have formed?

Laura writes:
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Albert Barnes Commentary:
He hath garnished the heavens – He has formed the stars which constitute so beautiful an ornament of the heavens.

His hand hath formed the crooked serpent – Or, rather, the fleeing serpent – ברח נחש nachash barach; see the notes at Isa 27:1. There can be no doubt that Job refers here to one of the constellations, which it seems was then known as the serpent or dragon. The practice of forming pictures of the heavens, with a somewhat fanciful resemblance to animals, was one of the most early devices of astronomy, and was evidently known in the time of Job; compare the notes at Job 9:9. The object was, probably, to aid the memory; and though the arrangement is entirely arbitrary, and the resemblance wholly fanciful, yet it is still continued in the works of astronomy, as a convenient help to the memory, and as aiding in the description of the heavenly bodies. This is probably the same constellation, which is described by Virgil, in language that strikingly resembles that here used by Job:

What is being spoken of in Job 26:13 is a constellation.

Mike writes:
(Here a little there a little, Isa 28:9-13)

Laura writes:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Mike writes:
So, who created Satan?

Laura writes:
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

God created a perfect cherub in Lucifer. Lucifer chose to sin.

Mike writes:
Revelation 12:9 “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called Satan and the Devil, who deceives the whole world”….

Laura writes:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Mike writes:
Ecclesiastes 1:13 “It is an experience of evil God has given the sons of man, to humble them by it”. Do you know of any creature more evil than Satan, whom God’s hand has formed?

Laura writes:
Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

Satan is as evil as they come.

Mike writes:
The next question would be, why did God create the crooked serpent known as Satan and the Devil? God creates the light and the darkness, He makes peace and creates evil, “I the Lord do all these things”…. Isa 45:7-9.

Laura writes:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isa 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Mike writes:
Why? ….” turn such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord” 1 Cor 5:5… There is none that is good, no not one. Romans 3:10, Psalm 14:1-3. Here a little there a little………

Laura writes:
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Psa 14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psa 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

To sum it all up:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

And all that God does is so we might be saved.

This however is not the end of the story. Everything that God created was good. One thing God did was to create all creatures in heaven and all humans on earth with “Free Will”. Some creatures in heaven and some humans on earth have rejected God. The opposite of good is evil. In a round about way God created evil by creating everyone with “Free Will”. Everyone has the capacity to choose to do good or choose to do evil. God generally does not interfere with anyone’s “Free Will”.

The reason there is pain and suffering on earth at this time is because people have “Free Will” and when a person chooses to do evil God just doesn’t interfere with that “Free Will” no matter how evil it is. The only reason God will interfere with a persons “Free Will” is if He has called a certain person to do a specific work, then He will protect that person from the “Evil Free Will” of others, just like in some instances He protects you from “Time and Chance” and even from “Accidents”.

I can recount in my own life many times where God has interfered just to save me from “Evil Acts by Other People with Free Will”, and from “Time and Chance” and “Accidents”. For example, I was working in Lake Mills, Wisconsin and I was done for the day. You know how it is, I was tired and just wanted to go home. I had to stop at the grocery store first and all went well. I was in line waiting to check out and the line was moving along, and the cash register worked just fine. Then it was my turn to check out. The cash register stopped working. Three people in succession looked at and tried to get the cash register working and not one of them could figure out why it just quit working. A few minutes later and just as quick as it had stopped it started working just as good as before it quit. They checked me out and I started to drive home. When I stopped at the intersection of County A and Highway 18, I knew immediately why the cash register jammed. There were three cars smashed and in various places on the highway and in the farmers field and the police and ambulance were not yet there. Meaning it just happened and I just missed it.

More recently I was in our attic and tripped over a large piece of plastic Darwin had put up there so my office chair up there would glide more easily. The plastic is a quarter inch thick and very hard. When I tripped, I landed on the plastic, but it felt like I landed on a pillow, and I wasn’t hurt at all.

If others have stories like these send it over and I will attach it to this.

So, no God did not create “Evil” for the sake of creating “Evil” it came about through those He created with “Free Will”. Those who chose to do “Evil” rather than to do “Good”. God allows the “Evil” as well as the “Good” that we may be saved.

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by Dwight Fleming (Oroville, California)
Excellent job on your “A Little Here and A Little There” article. You weaved the various inputs from me and yourself and others in a very cohesive fashion. I could see the Holy Spirit inspiring you in your writing. I have already received positive feedback from a good church friend this morning. Editor’s Note: Thank you, you also did a great job. Laura Lee

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)
Ezekiel 28 Satan (Response to Mike Hillyard) Ezekiel 28:12-19 (KJV) Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore, will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. 1. You (Lucifer) were in the garden of Eden. King Tyrus was not there. 2. Lucifer (later became known as Satan) was created in perfection, perfect in beauty, sealed up the sum of full wisdom. This can’t be Tyrus, Solomon was the most gifted in wisdom. 1 Kings 10:23 (KJV) So king Solomon exceeded all the kings of the earth for riches and for wisdom. 3. He was an anointed cherub. Tyrus was not a cherub. 3-A. Thus, rules out Ezekiel 28 likened unto a parable. Tyrus (a man) cannot be likened unto a cherub. The two are on opposite ends of a spectrum. 4. Cherubim have wings, king Tyrus didn’t. Exodus 25:20 (KJV) And the cherubim’s shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim’s be. 5. Lucifer, was in the actual mountain of God. Tyrus, a man (no man) was ever in heaven. 6. God says, “you wast perfect in the day you wast created, till iniquity wast found in thee”. 6-A. Tyrus was never perfect in the day he was created (formed) in his mother’s womb. 7. God said, “therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground”. 8.God said, “and I will destroy thee…. and never shalt thou be any more”. 8-A. Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 8-B. The above scripture testifies to Ezekiel 28 that God is referring to Lucifer for he (Lucifer) was indeed in heaven-the mountain of God. Your quote, “As far as Satan being an angel who rebelled against God. It would make God fallible and surprised at His failure”. Thus, your opinion. 9-A. Just because “scholars” debunked certain ideas, doesn’t prove anything. Scripture-not scholars is the final source of all truth. 10. And yes, God can destroy what he makes. Mark 1:23-24 (KJV) And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. 11. You write, “without God’s knowledge”. Again, your opinion. God is aware of all things and Lucifer could not hide his attitude from an all-knowing God. That is how God “found iniquity in him” (Lucifer), in the first place. 12. You argue, “free will”. In as much as you choose to break the law, you do have free will. When has God stopped you from committing a sin? God did not stop Lucifer from sinning in his perfect sinless state and Lucifer freely chose to do so. God says we are to choose righteousness and that my dear friend is “free will”. 13. God doesn’t force you to do righteousness any more than He was about to force Lucifer to do righteousness. 14. God is not making robots out of man and that includes all the Angeles. 15. God said, “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. God choses to do righteousness. No outside force of some kind is forcing Him to do righteousness, therefore we could not be like Him if he forced us to do righteousness. Therefore, once again, that amounts to “free will”, no matter the “disputing of words”. 16.Jesus came and spoke to them in parables. If you want to make Ezekiel 28 a parable, then I can make much of the Old Testament prophecies into parables when it comes to future prophies of like, “the lion shall dwell with the lamb” into a parable and not really literal as many so called “scholars will claim that those prophecies are just “allegories of a better time”, where, in heaven? My ultimate confidence comes from scripture, not “scholars”! 17. Ezekiel 28 is not a parable. Parables are described as this, parable (ˈpærəbəl) 1. a short story that uses familiar events to illustrate a religious or ethical point. 17-A. There is nothing familiar of the events of Ezekiel 28. God talks plainly of what He is saying about Lucifer of who, what, where he (Lucifer) was all about. 17-B. God “in plain English”, is speaking of events that we would not have any familiarity with. 17-C. Parables were meant to hide (be secrets) to those who were following God and not for the general populace. Luke 8:10: And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 17-D. Ezekiel 28 was not intended to hide who Lucifer was and now is. God wants the world to know what Satan (once Lucifer) is all about, so all could be aware of their (our) adversary the Devil and how he deceived all. Nothing there about hiding Satan’s “secrets”! 18.If you want to believe that Tyrus is the object in Ezekiel, then believe on and perhaps you also believe Lucifer never had free will to sin against God and God made him, do it?

Iron Sharpening Iron
In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There
Article by Laura Lee
Comments by Darwin Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Ezekiel 28 Satan (Response to Mike Hillyard)

Ezekiel 28:12-19 (KJV) Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore, will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

1. You (Lucifer) were in the garden of Eden. King Tyrus was not there.

2. Lucifer (later became known as Satan) was created in perfection, perfect in beauty, sealed up the sum of full wisdom. This can’t be Tyrus, Solomon was the most gifted in wisdom. 1 Kings 10:23 (KJV) So king Solomon exceeded all the kings of the earth for riches and for wisdom.

3. He was an anointed cherub. Tyrus was not a cherub.

3-A. Thus, rules out Ezekiel 28 likened unto a parable. Tyrus (a man) cannot be likened unto a cherub. The two are on opposite ends of a spectrum.

4. Cherubim have wings, king Tyrus didn’t. Exodus 25:20 (KJV) And the cherubim’s shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim’s be.

5. Lucifer, was in the actual mountain of God. Tyrus, a man (no man) was ever in heaven.

6. God says, “you wast perfect in the day you wast created, till iniquity wast found in thee”.

6-A. Tyrus was never perfect in the day he was created (formed) in his mother’s womb.

7. God said, “therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground”.

8.God said, “and I will destroy thee…. and never shalt thou be any more”.

8-A. Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

8-B. The above scripture testifies to Ezekiel 28 that God is referring to Lucifer for he (Lucifer) was indeed in heaven-the mountain of God. Your quote, “As far as Satan being an angel who rebelled against God. It would make God fallible and surprised at His failure”. Thus, your opinion.

9-A. Just because “scholars” debunked certain ideas, doesn’t prove anything. Scripture-not scholars is the final source of all truth.

10. And yes, God can destroy what he makes. Mark 1:23-24 (KJV) And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

11. You write, “without God’s knowledge”. Again, your opinion. God is aware of all things and Lucifer could not hide his attitude from an all-knowing God. That is how God “found iniquity in him” (Lucifer), in the first place.

12. You argue, “free will”. In as much as you choose to break the law, you do have free will. When has God stopped you from committing a sin? God did not stop Lucifer from sinning in his perfect sinless state and Lucifer freely chose to do so. God says we are to choose righteousness and that my dear friend is “free will”.

13. God doesn’t force you to do righteousness any more than He was about to force Lucifer to do righteousness.

14. God is not making robots out of man and that includes all the Angeles.

15. God said, “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. God choses to do righteousness. No outside force of some kind is forcing Him to do righteousness, therefore we could not be like Him if he forced us to do righteousness. Therefore, once again, that amounts to “free will”, no matter the “disputing of words”.

16.Jesus came and spoke to them in parables. If you want to make Ezekiel 28 a parable, then I can make much of the Old Testament prophecies into parables when it comes to future prophies of like, “the lion shall dwell with the lamb” into a parable and not really literal as many so called “scholars will claim that those prophecies are just “allegories of a better time”, where, in heaven? My ultimate confidence comes from scripture, not “scholars”!

17. Ezekiel 28 is not a parable. Parables are described as this, parable
(ˈpærəbəl) 1. a short story that uses familiar events to illustrate a religious or ethical point.

17-A. There is nothing familiar of the events of Ezekiel 28. God talks plainly of what He is saying about Lucifer of who, what, where he (Lucifer) was all about.

17-B. God “in plain English”, is speaking of events that we would not have any familiarity with.

17-C. Parables were meant to hide (be secrets) to those who were following God and not for the general populace. Luke 8:10: And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

17-D. Ezekiel 28 was not intended to hide who Lucifer was and now is. God wants the world to know what Satan (once Lucifer) is all about, so all could be aware of their (our) adversary the Devil and how he deceived all. Nothing there about hiding Satan’s “secrets”!

18.If you want to believe that Tyrus is the object in Ezekiel, then believe on and perhaps you also believe Lucifer never had free will to sin against God and God made him, do it?

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by Mike Hillyard (San Andres, California) and Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)
Thank you for your reply to my reply regarding, “A Little Here and A Little There ” article. Does Jesus have “free will”? “truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do, these also doeth the Son likewise”. John 5:19 (John 6:38) and “I am the vine, you are the branches….without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5-7) ” No one can come to Me Unless the Father draws (drags) them to Me” (John 6:44) “Man makes his plans, but the Lord directs his steps” (Pro. 16:9) and Romans 9:18, “God has mercy on whom He will, and whom He wills He hardens”. In Deuteronomy 30, God set before them life and death, blessings, and cursing’s. (The tree of the knowledge of good and evil) Turn to God with all your heart, all your strength, all your soul. Notice it is all that was in them as old natural, carnal minded Adam. God knew exactly what was “IN” them. They did not have such a heart that they would or could do the will of God. (Deut 5:29) This is why the old Adam, sinful, carnal minded, self-centered arrogant, easily fooled or deceived, vain old Adam, which we all in our own time, must die. (1 Cor 15:22) Jesus knew what was IN man. (John 5:41) Gal 5:16-21 tells us what the heart of man is until God destroys that heart and replaces it with the New heart of Christ, the New Man, Christ in you the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:27) The point is, man does make choices, have a will, but it is anything but “free” or sovereign. That would place man on God’s throne in his own estimation of his self-worth. (2 Thes 2:3-10) That is what man does and until Christ comes and knocks man off his “high horse”. Man thinks much too highly of himself. Of course, “free will” has been debated by theologians, scholars, and philosophers for thousands of years. So, take this as a lowly man’s understanding of a deep subject, but scripture is from the Most High. As far as Satan being an angel who rebelled against God. It would make God fallible and surprised at His failure. He created something perfect in beauty and then that being, without God’s knowledge, betrayed Almighty God? Who is this prophecy directed to? The King of Tyre. Did Jesus Christ ever speak in parables, (Luke 10;15) similes, metaphors, and such? (Matt 4:34 and Matt 13:34) “I change not” (Malachi 3:6) Can Satan be burnt or harmed by fire and turned to ashes? Chapter 27 is telling of the high mindedness of Tyre, ” Ezekial 27:3…thus saith the Lord God, oh Tyrus thou hast said “I am of perfect beauty” It is a man who is exalting himself above God, very much like King Nebuchadnezzar whom God had to humble by making him like unto a beast. As far as the crooked (fleeing or fugitive) serpent of Job 26, compare it with Isa 54:16. Also in Genesis 3:4 the serpent must eat dust all the days of his life, so is this not a parable? Who does Satan dine on? Mankind…turn such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord (1 Cor 5:5) The flesh of course is the hostile God hating mind of the natural carnal first Adam, which we all are until we are changed by the power of God. I am amazed at how for decades one can read the scriptures and then, as you pointed out, you one day actually “see it”. Such is the word of God. ********************************************** Mike asks: Does Jesus have “free will”? Laura answers: “Yes” Mike asks: Who is this prophecy directed to? The King of Tyre. Laura answers: Ezekiel 28:11-19 is talking about the King of Tyre and Satan. This is a dual prophecy. Mike asks: Did Jesus Christ ever speak in parables, (Luke 10;15) similes, metaphors, and such? (Matt 4:34 and Matt 13:34) Laura answers: Yes, Jesus spoke in parables all the time, but Ezekiel 28-11-19 is not a parable. It is a dual prophecy. Apparently, the King of Tyre and Satan have a lot in common with each other. Mike asks: Can Satan be burnt or harmed by fire and turned to ashes? Laura answers: Certainly, Tyrus can be burned or harmed by fire and turned to ashes, and whatever God has created, God can destroy whether by fire, water, or some other form. Mike asks: Also in Genesis 3:4 the serpent must eat dust all the days of his life, so is this not a parable? Laura answers: No Genesis 3:4 is not a parable. Mike asks: Who does Satan dine on? Laura answers: Satan dines on you and all other sinners.** I am amazed that you do not understand your own Bible more than you do and that you seem to have no idea what a parable is. Perhaps God is hiding something from you, and He hasn’t presented you with the parable yet. You quote scriptures that do not prove your points and some scriptures you use are not the ones you should have used. For example, Genesis 3:4. Laura Lee

Iron Sharpening Iron
In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There
Article by Laura Lee
Comments by Mike Hillyard (San Andres, California) and Laura Lee (Bismarck, North Dakota)

Thank you for your reply to my reply regarding, “A Little Here and A Little There ” article. Does Jesus have “free will”? “truly, truly I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do, these also doeth the Son likewise”. John 5:19 (John 6:38) and “I am the vine, you are the branches….without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5-7) ” No one can come to Me Unless the Father draws (drags) them to Me” (John 6:44) “Man makes his plans, but the Lord directs his steps” (Pro. 16:9) and Romans 9:18, “God has mercy on whom He will, and whom He wills He hardens”. In Deuteronomy 30, God set before them life and death, blessings, and cursing’s. (The tree of the knowledge of good and evil) Turn to God with all your heart, all your strength, all your soul. Notice it is all that was in them as old natural, carnal minded Adam. God knew exactly what was “IN” them. They did not have such a heart that they would or could do the will of God. (Deut 5:29) This is why the old Adam, sinful, carnal minded, self-centered arrogant, easily fooled or deceived, vain old Adam, which we all in our own time, must die. (1 Cor 15:22) Jesus knew what was IN man. (John 5:41) Gal 5:16-21 tells us what the heart of man is until God destroys that heart and replaces it with the New heart of Christ, the New Man, Christ in you the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:27) The point is, man does make choices, have a will, but it is anything but “free” or sovereign. That would place man on God’s throne in his own estimation of his self-worth. (2 Thes 2:3-10) That is what man does and until Christ comes and knocks man off his “high horse”. Man thinks much too highly of himself. Of course, “free will” has been debated by theologians, scholars, and philosophers for thousands of years. So, take this as a lowly man’s understanding of a deep subject, but scripture is from the Most High.

As far as Satan being an angel who rebelled against God. It would make God fallible and surprised at His failure. He created something perfect in beauty and then that being, without God’s knowledge, betrayed Almighty God? Who is this prophecy directed to? The King of Tyre. Did Jesus Christ ever speak in parables, (Luke 10;15) similes, metaphors, and such? (Matt 4:34 and Matt 13:34) “I change not” (Malachi 3:6) Can Satan be burnt or harmed by fire and turned to ashes? Chapter 27 is telling of the high mindedness of Tyre, ” Ezekial 27:3…thus saith the Lord God, oh Tyrus thou hast said “I am of perfect beauty” It is a man who is exalting himself above God, very much like King Nebuchadnezzar whom God had to humble by making him like unto a beast. As far as the crooked (fleeing or fugitive) serpent of Job 26, compare it with Isa 54:16. Also in Genesis 3:4 the serpent must eat dust all the days of his life, so is this not a parable? Who does Satan dine on? Mankind…turn such a one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord (1 Cor 5:5) The flesh of course is the hostile God hating mind of the natural carnal first Adam, which we all are until we are changed by the power of God.

I am amazed at how for decades one can read the scriptures and then, as you pointed out, you one day actually “see it”. Such is the word of God.

************************************************
Mike asks: Does Jesus have “free will”?
Laura answers: “Yes”

Mike asks: Who is this prophecy directed to? The King of Tyre.
Laura answers: Ezekiel 28:11-19 is talking about the King of Tyre and Satan. This is a dual prophecy.

Mike asks: Did Jesus Christ ever speak in parables, (Luke 10;15) similes, metaphors, and such? (Matt 4:34 and Matt 13:34)
Laura answers: Yes, Jesus spoke in parables all the time, but Ezekiel 28-11-19 is not a parable. It is a dual prophecy. Apparently, the King of Tyre and Satan have a lot in common with each other.

Mike asks: Can Satan be burnt or harmed by fire and turned to ashes?
Laura answers: Certainly, Tyrus can be burned or harmed by fire and turned to ashes, and whatever God has created, God can destroy whether by fire, water, or some other form.

Mike asks: Also in Genesis 3:4 the serpent must eat dust all the days of his life, so is this not a parable?
Laura answers: No Genesis 3:4 is not a parable.

Mike asks: Who does Satan dine on?
Laura answers: Satan dines on you and all other sinners.

I am amazed that you do not understand your own Bible more than you do and that you seem to have no idea what a parable is. Perhaps God is hiding something from you, and He hasn’t presented you with the parable yet. You quote scriptures that do not prove your points and some scriptures you use are not the ones you should have used. For example, Genesis 3:4. Laura Lee

Iron Sharpening Iron In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There Article by Laura Lee Comments by Dwight Fleming (Oroville, California)
To add to your answers to Mike Hillyard regarding the destruction of Satan. Hebrews 2:14 reads, “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.” Mike hits me with the same statements. I like your comments. Mike is a great guy. We’ve had some very good times in the past. But the last few years, he has been reading material from “Concordant Publishing Concern” which teaches universal salvation including Satan and his demons. Editor’s Note: Thank you for this information. I don’t think Mike liked our answers, he unsubscribed a few days ago. Laura Lee

Iron Sharpening Iron
In regard to: A Little Here and A Little There
Article by Laura Lee
Comments by Dwight Fleming (Oroville, California)

To add to your answers to Mike Hillyard regarding the destruction of Satan. Hebrews 2:14 reads, “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.” Mike hits me with the same statements. I like your comments. Mike is a great guy. We’ve had some very good times in the past. But the last few years, he has been reading material from “Concordant Publishing Concern” which teaches universal salvation including Satan and his demons.

Editor’s Note: Thank you for this information. I don’t think Mike liked our answers, he unsubscribed a few days ago. Laura Lee

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